Thank you! and... Advice?

[deepoctave]

Advice.. difficult!

Feel free to cross-post this to shadow-discuss :)

I get together for dinner with a few other mobile-hackers, and its
a pretty universal message across everyone I've talked to, and its the
message I've been saying for awhile; developing in the mobile space has
never been 'worse'. Palm shot themselves, and who knows where WebOS is
headed right now. RIM 'is the new Palm' I've been saying for a couple
years, and I mean that in the way that Palm shot themselves. Windows Phone
7 is cute, but ... its based oin Silverlight, which MS has basicly
admitted theyu're shooting since it flopped -- they say they're dropping
it on the desktop, and supporting it on the mobile, but thats not a good
sounding thing; more to point, they cut off all the existing apps (though
claim to still support WinMobile 6.5, so corporate folks cna sitll buy
phones on the older OS) .. either way, its not sounding good to develope
for WinMobile/WinPhone7, since its a mess. (Poor Microsoft :/)

Big dogs .. iPhone -- pretty much a nasty ugly market to sell in;
you basicly can go wide or vertical -- o vertical means charge a lot, and
sell to specific customers who know about your app; the other model is go
wide, which means giving it away free and trying to make money on the side
(think FarmVille and those 'free' games on the web, making money by
selling you little trinkets in game later.) For an app like Shadow .. you
basicly have to give it away; you could charge $3 or something, but its
tough to get noticed -- the 'top apps' system means the top apps keep
selling, and its nigh impossible to crack it otherwise; likewise, if you
can only sell youre app for $3, you have to sell a _lot_ of them to make
it worth anything, and that means being top in your category, but as
mentioned, thats nigh impossible without a lot of luck or money :)

Android .. not yet there, but no one is buying apps right there,
so its still a big unknown.

Me, I'd place my bets with Android right now, ine the meaning.. a
dev may stand a chance there, in awhile when the market sorts out. But
Apple is not going down without a fight, so should be a fun couple years.

So current mobile is like the last few years -- its very
_interesting_, but its a brutal mean space :)

(Which is why I'm helping guys make a new device, for one project
.. lets just add to the confusion!)

jeff

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, deepoctave wrote:

# Jeff,
# I would like to thank you for the great product you created in ShadowPlan. The ways I've used ShadowPlan during the past ten or so years is legion. I used BrainForest before I found your program, and I used little cascading slips yellow sticky notes in columns on pieces of 8-1/2x11 paper before that!
#
# I'm not a "computer guy", I'm just an elementary orchestra teacher compensating for an ADD brain, trying to make good use of my time. Lesson plans, a place to put account numbers for equipment repairs, supplies and music, a list of books I'd like to read, dimensions for an endpin holder for my cellists, and ad infinitum.
#
# It's been incredibly useful tool.
#
# I haven't written to you, not have I been on the forum for a long time because it all worked so well for me.
#
# The other program that I couldn't do without is MobileDb from Handmark.
#
# Several hundred instruments owned by my public school system in an urban setting are inventoried on it, over 1,000 pieces of school orchestra music, my mileage as I travel to six schools during the week (four per day), all of this and much more have resided on my Palm Tungsten E2 which is headed into its seventh year...
#
# However, it is now going the way of all things electronic with a dying battery and it has been predeceased by a 2004 Windows XP computer by several weeks now. And at this point I still have never owned a cell phone like the rest of my world.
#
# The last few weeks have been a "catch up" time in terms of how the world has changed while I've been busy teaching these kids: my new Windows 7 laptop won't sync my T-E2, won't run MobileDb with Excel, and has made ShadowPlan impossible to use; lots of "Smart" phones are out there, but they aren't apparently smart enough to let me continue to organize my life like the Palm did.
#
# Reading over the past year's worth of postings (not that many to go through!), I discovered that although there are appreciative and loyal customers out there for you, the way forward for ShadowPlan seems dark. And without MobileDB and ShadowPlan, I'm feeling quite nervous about what I will be doing to keep organized with ... what? Should I get a Dell Streak? A HT Evo? I don't want anything to do with Apple... Anyway, I apologize for rambling.
#
# What I really wanted to do when I realized what the situation was is to sit down and write this letter of appreciation. Just as my students have no concept of the sweat and tears it takes to make them into string players (for them as well as for me), I can only infer from my own experience and your comments what it has been like for you to provide this software.
#
# So, THANK YOU!
#
# Any advice you wish to give about what I do in the future will be welcome.

[Bert Latamore]

Jeff,

I think you have really summed up what is going on, except that the Android
market may be worse than you said. Several of my friends who have bought Android
smartphones say they come pre-loaded with stuff that the cellular carrier wants
you to use, which means stuff that they make extra money with. That doesn't
leave a lot of resources for stuff you want. I can just imagine trying to put my
base appsw -- Quicken, HanDBase, Pimlical, CalorieKing, and of course Shadow,
plus the book readers for eReader, BN Nook, MobiPocket, and Amazon/Kindle, and
then trying to get all the data I need to back those up on it. Not a chance. And
the only way you can get rid of the junk the carrier puts on is to "root" the
machine. I don't know how to do that, and it sounds complicated.


And forget the new Android "tablets" So far all of them are being sold through
cellular carriers, which means they come loaded with that same junk. To me that
makes them large cell phones, not true tablets. The only possible bright spot
there so far is the new BN NOOKcolor, which they are selling as a color book
reader, but which is based on Android. It isn't out yet, so I have no way to
know if it is crippled, but if it really is an Android tablet preloaded with the
BN book reader software that would work for me, since I want that reader in any
case. So I am holding my breath and waiting for it to come out so I can see what
I can get.

Otherwise, I did see a Windows laptop/tablet that might work, but it is
expensive. Basically it works as a laptop, but with the processor and memory
built into the screen side rather than under the keyboard. You can lift the
screen off the base and carry it around as a tablet, then put it back on the
base and have a keyboard and other facilities. I have forgotten now where I saw
it, but I might end up hunting that down and seeing if I can afford one.

Bert Latamore
Mobile Computing Blogger at http://theinfoboom.com/profile/siliconanglewikibon
Associate Editor "The Seybold Report" http://www.seyboldreport.com/
Freelance Writer, Editor and Book Doctor




________________________________
From: deepoctave <***@sbcglobal.net>
To: shadow-***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 4:01:29 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Thank you! and... Advice?


Advice.. difficult!

Feel free to cross-post this to shadow-discuss :)

I get together for dinner with a few other mobile-hackers, and its
a pretty universal message across everyone I've talked to, and its the
message I've been saying for awhile; developing in the mobile space has
never been 'worse'. Palm shot themselves, and who knows where WebOS is
headed right now. RIM 'is the new Palm' I've been saying for a couple
years, and I mean that in the way that Palm shot themselves. Windows Phone
7 is cute, but ... its based oin Silverlight, which MS has basicly
admitted theyu're shooting since it flopped -- they say they're dropping
it on the desktop, and supporting it on the mobile, but thats not a good
sounding thing; more to point, they cut off all the existing apps (though
claim to still support WinMobile 6.5, so corporate folks cna sitll buy
phones on the older OS) .. either way, its not sounding good to develope
for WinMobile/WinPhone7, since its a mess. (Poor Microsoft :/)

Big dogs .. iPhone -- pretty much a nasty ugly market to sell in;
you basicly can go wide or vertical -- o vertical means charge a lot, and
sell to specific customers who know about your app; the other model is go
wide, which means giving it away free and trying to make money on the side
(think FarmVille and those 'free' games on the web, making money by
selling you little trinkets in game later.) For an app like Shadow .. you
basicly have to give it away; you could charge $3 or something, but its
tough to get noticed -- the 'top apps' system means the top apps keep
selling, and its nigh impossible to crack it otherwise; likewise, if you
can only sell youre app for $3, you have to sell a _lot_ of them to make
it worth anything, and that means being top in your category, but as
mentioned, thats nigh impossible without a lot of luck or money :)

Android .. not yet there, but no one is buying apps right there,
so its still a big unknown.

Me, I'd place my bets with Android right now, ine the meaning.. a
dev may stand a chance there, in awhile when the market sorts out. But
Apple is not going down without a fight, so should be a fun couple years.

So current mobile is like the last few years -- its very
_interesting_, but its a brutal mean space :)

(Which is why I'm helping guys make a new device, for one project
.. lets just add to the confusion!)

jeff

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, deepoctave wrote:

# Jeff,
# I would like to thank you for the great product you created in ShadowPlan.
The ways I've used ShadowPlan during the past ten or so years is legion. I used
BrainForest before I found your program, and I used little cascading slips
yellow sticky notes in columns on pieces of 8-1/2x11 paper before that!
#
# I'm not a "computer guy", I'm just an elementary orchestra teacher
compensating for an ADD brain, trying to make good use of my time. Lesson
plans, a place to put account numbers for equipment repairs, supplies and music,
a list of books I'd like to read, dimensions for an endpin holder for my
cellists, and ad infinitum.
#
# It's been incredibly useful tool.
#
# I haven't written to you, not have I been on the forum for a long time because
it all worked so well for me.
#
# The other program that I couldn't do without is MobileDb from Handmark.
#
# Several hundred instruments owned by my public school system in an urban
setting are inventoried on it, over 1,000 pieces of school orchestra music, my
mileage as I travel to six schools during the week (four per day), all of this
and much more have resided on my Palm Tungsten E2 which is headed into its
seventh year...
#
# However, it is now going the way of all things electronic with a dying battery
and it has been predeceased by a 2004 Windows XP computer by several weeks now.
And at this point I still have never owned a cell phone like the rest of my
world.
#
# The last few weeks have been a "catch up" time in terms of how the world has
changed while I've been busy teaching these kids: my new Windows 7 laptop won't
sync my T-E2, won't run MobileDb with Excel, and has made ShadowPlan impossible
to use; lots of "Smart" phones are out there, but they aren't apparently smart
enough to let me continue to organize my life like the Palm did.
#
# Reading over the past year's worth of postings (not that many to go through!),
I discovered that although there are appreciative and loyal customers out there
for you, the way forward for ShadowPlan seems dark. And without MobileDB and
ShadowPlan, I'm feeling quite nervous about what I will be doing to keep
organized with ... what? Should I get a Dell Streak? A HT Evo? I don't want
anything to do with Apple... Anyway, I apologize for rambling.
#
# What I really wanted to do when I realized what the situation was is to sit
down and write this letter of appreciation. Just as my students have no concept
of the sweat and tears it takes to make them into string players (for them as
well as for me), I can only infer from my own experience and your comments what
it has been like for you to provide this software.
#
# So, THANK YOU!
#
# Any advice you wish to give about what I do in the future will be welcome.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug Morrison-Cleary]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:56:40 -0800 (PST)

Post by Bert Latamore
Jeff,
I think you have really summed up what is going on, except that the
Android market may be worse than you said. Several of my friends who
have bought Android smartphones say they come pre-loaded with stuff
that the cellular carrier wants you to use, which means stuff that
they make extra money with. That doesn't leave a lot of resources for
stuff you want. I can just imagine trying to put my base appsw --
Quicken, HanDBase, Pimlical, CalorieKing, and of course Shadow, plus
the book readers for eReader, BN Nook, MobiPocket, and Amazon/Kindle,
and then trying to get all the data I need to back those up on it.
Not a chance. And the only way you can get rid of the junk the
carrier puts on is to "root" the machine. I don't know how to do
that, and it sounds complicated.
And forget the new Android "tablets" So far all of them are being
sold through cellular carriers, which means they come loaded with
that same junk. To me that makes them large cell phones, not true
tablets.

Its not a big company in the US, but check out the Archos tablets. They
have ipod touch/cell phone sized tablets as well as up to 10"
tablets--all running android. (Well, the big ones aren't out yet but
will be shortly.) None of these will be loaded with the crap the US
cellular companies pile on cell phones.

Doug Morrison-Cleary

[Bert Latamore]

Doug,

Thanks. I will check those out. I want a tablet that will supplement rather than
replace my Windows Vista handheld. But I want something that I can attach to a
keyboard and that will run Pimlical specifically, and CESD is hinting at an
Android version and has said he definitely is not doing an iPad version because
of the all control surrounding the Apple App store.

Bert Latamore
Mobile Computing Blogger at http://theinfoboom.com/profile/siliconanglewikibon
Associate Editor "The Seybold Report" http://www.seyboldreport.com/
Freelance Writer, Editor and Book Doctor




________________________________
From: Doug Morrison-Cleary <***@dshop.morrisoncleary.info>
To: shadow-***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 14, 2010 6:21:29 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Thank you! and... Advice?


On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:56:40 -0800 (PST)

Post by Bert Latamore
Jeff,
I think you have really summed up what is going on, except that the
Android market may be worse than you said. Several of my friends who
have bought Android smartphones say they come pre-loaded with stuff
that the cellular carrier wants you to use, which means stuff that
they make extra money with. That doesn't leave a lot of resources for
stuff you want. I can just imagine trying to put my base appsw --
Quicken, HanDBase, Pimlical, CalorieKing, and of course Shadow, plus
the book readers for eReader, BN Nook, MobiPocket, and Amazon/Kindle,
and then trying to get all the data I need to back those up on it.
Not a chance. And the only way you can get rid of the junk the
carrier puts on is to "root" the machine. I don't know how to do
that, and it sounds complicated.
And forget the new Android "tablets" So far all of them are being
sold through cellular carriers, which means they come loaded with
that same junk. To me that makes them large cell phones, not true
tablets.

Its not a big company in the US, but check out the Archos tablets. They
have ipod touch/cell phone sized tablets as well as up to 10"
tablets--all running android. (Well, the big ones aren't out yet but
will be shortly.) None of these will be loaded with the crap the US
cellular companies pile on cell phones.

Doug Morrison-Cleary






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[smahomad]

It's sort of comforting to see other people struggling with a "forced" migration from PalmOS into the next generation PDA.

I also have lots of trouble finding a decent solution, was waiting for Palm Pre availability so I could use my beloved PalmOS apps (and time and $$ investment) under Classic.

Unfortunately I saw Palm Pre2 remove support for Classic, it's a huge shame and a loud call to search elsewhere...

So, it's a back to basics for me finding suitable alternatives, and strongly contemplating carrying my T3 along with my two other cell phones :-/

[John]

I think that the "bloat" issue isn't really a problem. I have all the programs that you mention, or their equivalents, loaded on my T-mobile Vibrant (Android) which has 16 Gig internal SD card and another 16 Gig external card (that I hardly use yet), and no problem running these, and no shortage of memory. Also, getting "root" is a one-click matter, and once there one can flash a custom "ROM" which has all the up-to-date Android system software and stripped of all the extras put on by the carrier, though really they aren't much of a factor to me.

If ShadowPlan were available now as an Android program, I bet many would pay as much as they did for the Palm versions. I still haven't really replaced it on Android, much less transferred in all the data that I still have on the desktop ShadowPlan. I know that many are waiting for the Pimlical Android version (impatiently I think) to replace their DateBk6 Palm versions.

Post by Bert Latamore
Jeff,
I think you have really summed up what is going on, except that the Android
market may be worse than you said. Several of my friends who have bought Android
smartphones say they come pre-loaded with stuff that the cellular carrier wants
you to use, which means stuff that they make extra money with. That doesn't
leave a lot of resources for stuff you want. I can just imagine trying to put my
base appsw -- Quicken, HanDBase, Pimlical, CalorieKing, and of course Shadow,
plus the book readers for eReader, BN Nook, MobiPocket, and Amazon/Kindle, and
then trying to get all the data I need to back those up on it. Not a chance. And
the only way you can get rid of the junk the carrier puts on is to "root" the
machine. I don't know how to do that, and it sounds complicated.
And forget the new Android "tablets" So far all of them are being sold through
cellular carriers, which means they come loaded with that same junk. To me that
makes them large cell phones, not true tablets. The only possible bright spot
there so far is the new BN NOOKcolor, which they are selling as a color book
reader, but which is based on Android. It isn't out yet, so I have no way to
know if it is crippled, but if it really is an Android tablet preloaded with the
BN book reader software that would work for me, since I want that reader in any
case. So I am holding my breath and waiting for it to come out so I can see what
I can get.
Otherwise, I did see a Windows laptop/tablet that might work, but it is
expensive. Basically it works as a laptop, but with the processor and memory
built into the screen side rather than under the keyboard. You can lift the
screen off the base and carry it around as a tablet, then put it back on the
base and have a keyboard and other facilities. I have forgotten now where I saw
it, but I might end up hunting that down and seeing if I can afford one.
Bert Latamore
Mobile Computing Blogger at http://theinfoboom.com/profile/siliconanglewikibon
Associate Editor "The Seybold Report" http://www.seyboldreport.com/
Freelance Writer, Editor and Book Doctor
________________________________
Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 4:01:29 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Thank you! and... Advice?
Advice.. difficult!
Feel free to cross-post this to shadow-discuss :)
I get together for dinner with a few other mobile-hackers, and its
a pretty universal message across everyone I've talked to, and its the
message I've been saying for awhile; developing in the mobile space has
never been 'worse'. Palm shot themselves, and who knows where WebOS is
headed right now. RIM 'is the new Palm' I've been saying for a couple
years, and I mean that in the way that Palm shot themselves. Windows Phone
7 is cute, but ... its based oin Silverlight, which MS has basicly
admitted theyu're shooting since it flopped -- they say they're dropping
it on the desktop, and supporting it on the mobile, but thats not a good
sounding thing; more to point, they cut off all the existing apps (though
claim to still support WinMobile 6.5, so corporate folks cna sitll buy
phones on the older OS) .. either way, its not sounding good to develope
for WinMobile/WinPhone7, since its a mess. (Poor Microsoft :/)
Big dogs .. iPhone -- pretty much a nasty ugly market to sell in;
you basicly can go wide or vertical -- o vertical means charge a lot, and
sell to specific customers who know about your app; the other model is go
wide, which means giving it away free and trying to make money on the side
(think FarmVille and those 'free' games on the web, making money by
selling you little trinkets in game later.) For an app like Shadow .. you
basicly have to give it away; you could charge $3 or something, but its
tough to get noticed -- the 'top apps' system means the top apps keep
selling, and its nigh impossible to crack it otherwise; likewise, if you
can only sell youre app for $3, you have to sell a _lot_ of them to make
it worth anything, and that means being top in your category, but as
mentioned, thats nigh impossible without a lot of luck or money :)
Android .. not yet there, but no one is buying apps right there,
so its still a big unknown.
Me, I'd place my bets with Android right now, ine the meaning.. a
dev may stand a chance there, in awhile when the market sorts out. But
Apple is not going down without a fight, so should be a fun couple years.
So current mobile is like the last few years -- its very
_interesting_, but its a brutal mean space :)
(Which is why I'm helping guys make a new device, for one project
.. lets just add to the confusion!)
jeff
# Jeff,
# I would like to thank you for the great product you created in ShadowPlan.
The ways I've used ShadowPlan during the past ten or so years is legion. I used
BrainForest before I found your program, and I used little cascading slips
yellow sticky notes in columns on pieces of 8-1/2x11 paper before that!
#
# I'm not a "computer guy", I'm just an elementary orchestra teacher
compensating for an ADD brain, trying to make good use of my time. Lesson
plans, a place to put account numbers for equipment repairs, supplies and music,
a list of books I'd like to read, dimensions for an endpin holder for my
cellists, and ad infinitum.
#
# It's been incredibly useful tool.
#
# I haven't written to you, not have I been on the forum for a long time because
it all worked so well for me.
#
# The other program that I couldn't do without is MobileDb from Handmark.
#
# Several hundred instruments owned by my public school system in an urban
setting are inventoried on it, over 1,000 pieces of school orchestra music, my
mileage as I travel to six schools during the week (four per day), all of this
and much more have resided on my Palm Tungsten E2 which is headed into its
seventh year...
#
# However, it is now going the way of all things electronic with a dying battery
and it has been predeceased by a 2004 Windows XP computer by several weeks now.
And at this point I still have never owned a cell phone like the rest of my
world.
#
# The last few weeks have been a "catch up" time in terms of how the world has
changed while I've been busy teaching these kids: my new Windows 7 laptop won't
sync my T-E2, won't run MobileDb with Excel, and has made ShadowPlan impossible
to use; lots of "Smart" phones are out there, but they aren't apparently smart
enough to let me continue to organize my life like the Palm did.
#
# Reading over the past year's worth of postings (not that many to go through!),
I discovered that although there are appreciative and loyal customers out there
for you, the way forward for ShadowPlan seems dark. And without MobileDB and
ShadowPlan, I'm feeling quite nervous about what I will be doing to keep
organized with ... what? Should I get a Dell Streak? A HT Evo? I don't want
anything to do with Apple... Anyway, I apologize for rambling.
#
# What I really wanted to do when I realized what the situation was is to sit
down and write this letter of appreciation. Just as my students have no concept
of the sweat and tears it takes to make them into string players (for them as
well as for me), I can only infer from my own experience and your comments what
it has been like for you to provide this software.
#
# So, THANK YOU!
#
# Any advice you wish to give about what I do in the future will be welcome.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug]

One possible replacement for ShadowPlan (especially for people using Shadow Plan under Classic on webOS) is Outline Tracker. I've added a number of improvements since my original notice:
http://outlinetracker.com/outlinetracker/support.html#versions
and unified the Shadow Plan export templates to use both Start Date and Target Date:
http://outlinetracker.com/outlinetracker/migration.html#ShadowPlan

Post by deepoctave
# Jeff,
# I would like to thank you for the great product you created in ShadowPlan.
The ways I've used ShadowPlan during the past ten or so years is legion. I used
BrainForest before I found your program, and I used little cascading slips
yellow sticky notes in columns on pieces of 8-1/2x11 paper before that!
#
# I'm not a "computer guy", I'm just an elementary orchestra teacher
compensating for an ADD brain, trying to make good use of my time. Lesson
plans, a place to put account numbers for equipment repairs, supplies and music,
a list of books I'd like to read, dimensions for an endpin holder for my
cellists, and ad infinitum.
#
# It's been incredibly useful tool.
#
# I haven't written to you, not have I been on the forum for a long time because
it all worked so well for me.
#
# The other program that I couldn't do without is MobileDb from Handmark.
#
# Several hundred instruments owned by my public school system in an urban
setting are inventoried on it, over 1,000 pieces of school orchestra music, my
mileage as I travel to six schools during the week (four per day), all of this
and much more have resided on my Palm Tungsten E2 which is headed into its
seventh year...
#
# However, it is now going the way of all things electronic with a dying battery
and it has been predeceased by a 2004 Windows XP computer by several weeks now.
And at this point I still have never owned a cell phone like the rest of my
world.
#
# The last few weeks have been a "catch up" time in terms of how the world has
changed while I've been busy teaching these kids: my new Windows 7 laptop won't
sync my T-E2, won't run MobileDb with Excel, and has made ShadowPlan impossible
to use; lots of "Smart" phones are out there, but they aren't apparently smart
enough to let me continue to organize my life like the Palm did.
#
# Reading over the past year's worth of postings (not that many to go through!),
I discovered that although there are appreciative and loyal customers out there
for you, the way forward for ShadowPlan seems dark. And without MobileDB and
ShadowPlan, I'm feeling quite nervous about what I will be doing to keep
organized with ... what? Should I get a Dell Streak? A HT Evo? I don't want
anything to do with Apple... Anyway, I apologize for rambling.
#
# What I really wanted to do when I realized what the situation was is to sit
down and write this letter of appreciation. Just as my students have no concept
of the sweat and tears it takes to make them into string players (for them as
well as for me), I can only infer from my own experience and your comments what
it has been like for you to provide this software.
#
# So, THANK YOU!
#
# Any advice you wish to give about what I do in the future will be welcome.